[Multi] Final Fantasy XIII

[Oni]

Originally Posted by Elc1247 why must you persist... ive made it clear in my last post i made a mistake sir... and games in japan are usually ¥6000-¥8000 or so, its a bit more than in the USA, and about how much its worth in your Australia sir, having games like Prince of Persia which only came out a few months at most ago, go for ¥1500 is pretty bad sir... though i may have overstated how cheap the games are, it still does not change the fact that sales are sharply dropping and that overall, the japanese attitude on the 360 is not that great. thats it, thats all im going to say on this topic, more from you and i would consider it trolling. thank you very much. now... on to FF13, i wonder how the 360 FF13 set looks like... i believe the game is on 3 disks? ive only seen one other game with that many disks on the 360... and thats SO4. and too bad the game isnt just on 1 disk... less of a hassle if it was. i remember having to swap out disks whenever i wanted to travel in SO4, which was a bad decision on the game developers part >_> why couldnt they have the last disk contain all the locations you can get to in the end? like in FF 7 and 8... well i might have heard that it installs on the HD enough to not require frequent disk swapping for FF13 on 360... but i dunno where i heard that if i did at all... plus its a bit dubious if its even necessary given the reported amount of linearity the game supposedly has... oh well... we shall see shortly how things work out.

"Consider it trolling", hah. I'd love if that statement worked in real life, and didn't just look like you were retracting statements.

The Japanese attitude may not be great, but it also isn't failing. Sakaku Complex likes to take articles and pretty much embellish them, and add opinions. Just an observation.

It does seem that a lot of people are mistaking linear for bad. I mean, Uncharted was pretty linear. Other than the treasure finding aspect, it pretty much went from start to end.

Well, anyway, wasn't FFXIII designed with the PS3 in mind...if you can even say that game design was designed for a next generation console, which it wasn't. Final Fantasy is at the stage, it seems, where it might be beneficial to sell off the franchise to another company (like the state Sonic is in).

[Elc1247]

Originally Posted by Oni "Consider it trolling", hah. I'd love if that statement worked in real life, and didn't just look like you were retracting statements. The Japanese attitude may not be great, but it also isn't failing. Sakaku Complex likes to take articles and pretty much embellish them, and add opinions. Just an observation. It does seem that a lot of people are mistaking linear for bad. I mean, Uncharted was pretty linear. Other than the treasure finding aspect, it pretty much went from start to end. Well, anyway, wasn't FFXIII designed with the PS3 in mind...if you can even say that game design was designed for a next generation console, which it wasn't. Final Fantasy is at the stage, it seems, where it might be beneficial to sell off the franchise to another company (like the state Sonic is in).

sigh... im surprised you dont consider "trolling" an action you can do in real life >_> i was correcting myself if you havent noticed... my memory likes to be hazy on things i dont use on a daily basis and saw quite a while ago.

Uncharted shouldnt be compared to FF in general when it comes to linearity... since Uncharted is a platforming game (naughty dog is known for them, IE Crash Bandicoot) the game was built with the expectation that it was going to be linear... you usually dont expect RPGs in general to be super linear.

i agree that it was very frustrating to see what Square has done to FF13 from the development standpoint, they started it as a PS2 project, but never really changed everything to accommodate the full power of the current gen systems. if they pulled a MGS4, than it would have turned out much differently and more synonymously accepted as an amazing game, at least, i would think it would be. MGS4 started as a PS2 project, but was moved to the PS3 and they took full advantage of the hardware, and, well... it looks like a real life movie at times... except you have control over the characters. you would expect that Square, with its deep pockets and experienced teams, would have been able to release something that would be taken as well as MGS4... but alas, they have been dropping in the overall quality of their final fantasy games... just look at FF12... the combat was pretty fun and the graphics were great for a PS2 game... but the rest of it was pretty shoddy... what happened to a great story where all the "main characters" have a key role or at least SOME respectable role in it? *cough* vaan and penelo *cough* i have to agree... square should probably sell FF off to someone, preferably someone that will make something epic out of it.

[Oni]

Originally Posted by Elc1247 sigh... im surprised you dont consider "trolling" an action you can do in real life >_> i was correcting myself if you havent noticed... my memory likes to be hazy on things i dont use on a daily basis and saw quite a while ago. Uncharted shouldnt be compared to FF in general when it comes to linearity... since Uncharted is a platforming game (naughty dog is known for them, IE Crash Bandicoot) the game was built with the expectation that it was going to be linear... you usually dont expect RPGs in general to be super linear. i agree that it was very frustrating to see what Square has done to FF13 from the development standpoint, they started it as a PS2 project, but never really changed everything to accommodate the full power of the current gen systems. if they pulled a MGS4, than it would have turned out much differently and more synonymously accepted as an amazing game, at least, i would think it would be. MGS4 started as a PS2 project, but was moved to the PS3 and they took full advantage of the hardware, and, well... it looks like a real life movie at times... except you have control over the characters. you would expect that Square, with its deep pockets and experienced teams, would have been able to release something that would be taken as well as MGS4... but alas, they have been dropping in the overall quality of their final fantasy games... just look at FF12... the combat was pretty fun and the graphics were great for a PS2 game... but the rest of it was pretty shoddy... what happened to a great story where all the "main characters" have a key role or at least SOME respectable role in it? *cough* vaan and penelo *cough* i have to agree... square should probably sell FF off to someone, preferably someone that will make something epic out of it.

No, I was saying that claiming someone to be trolling during an argument isn't valid. It's a way of getting out of trying to disprove someone, because you lack the resources to do so.

And why don't you expect RPGs to be linear? They are Role Playing Games (on a console, you can't bring up DnD at all. In a console RPG, the dice have already been rolled for you. Your destination, goal, final stand point and ending are pretty much already decided. There is no Game Master), after all. If I remember correctly, every Final Fantasy has been pretty linear. The side quests have little to do with the actual plot, and are often just things like "collect that" or "defeat this". Hell, even the Disgaea series, a TRPG series, is extremely linear. Item Worlds don't really count as side stories, and the games only go off on a tangent after end game, as is with RPGs in general. The ending will most likely change due to how much effort you put in, though, but that's based purely on level, not decisions.

Well, you have to learn the PS3's hardware and then change your understanding to better fit that console's capabilities. Maybe the studio didn't have nearly enough funding? Either that, or is was too late in the project. Keeping the PS2's limits on the game would have most likely worked out better than trying to change it, but failing half way.

JRPGs haven't been doing too well these days, it seems.

[Elc1247]

sigh... you still have no valid point, i have told you before, to try to stay on subject, that it is over, but no, you must bring it up again, if thats not trolling... well, then you have an odd definition of such a thing.

but when it comes to linearity, i believe the general consensus is the lack of an ability to do any exploring, you are given a hallway to run through, theres no big dungeons that you trek through every nook and cranny to find extra items and possibly uncover a side story of sorts. what is usually referred to as the notion of linearity in video games is the inability to have any freedom to explore. as an example, you cant really explore in platform games usually, IE sonic, old mario games, crash bandicoot, uncharted, etc. nor in most generic FPS games either IE call of duty.
another note there are DnD type games in video games, one recent example is Dragon Age, you cant say that there are no "non-linear" rpgs because the game developer is technically the "dungeon master", its like playing with a dungeon master that already has the entire game made up in his mind, all the areas and key events, and there is random chance in most rpgs, instead of rolling dice manually, you use a random number generator, most "RPG" games are in a sense, DnD, just how close it is to the "oldschool" DnD with paper and dice, depends on the game >_> by your definition, the only kinds of games that would come even close to a "non-linear" game are open sandbox games like Elder Scrolls and the like, but even those would be considered linear to your standards because things are already decided for you, the game has a definite end and you are limited as to what you can do in the world. linearity has different standards when it comes to video games depending on the kind of game it is.

i could go on, but i would be wasting my time, its only going to get worse. must you try to discredit my opinions at every turn and try to provoke me? seems like you are a pretty unfriendly lot when it comes to others stating their thoughts.

sigh... i think ill go ignore the forum for a while, i thought i could pop in every once in a while and throw in my two cents and join in the fun, instead i get in a petty squabble.

[Bonediddly]

Originally Posted by Elc1247 seems like you are a pretty unfriendly lot when it comes to others stating their thoughts.

Don't tar us all with the same brush just because Oni likes to argue >.>.

I'm going to have to agree with Elc on the topic on linearity. Running from point A to point B isn't incredibly exciting.

Okay enough of this now, either discuss the topic or don't post in this thread at all. Someone let the argument die for peace sake.

Anyway, ON TOPIC. I saw IGN's review yesterday; they gave it a 8.5 I think. Fans are just irritated with lol linearity.

[Oni]

Originally Posted by Elc1247 sigh... you still have no valid point, i have told you before, to try to stay on subject, that it is over, but no, you must bring it up again, if thats not trolling... well, then you have an odd definition of such a thing. but when it comes to linearity, i believe the general consensus is the lack of an ability to do any exploring, you are given a hallway to run through, theres no big dungeons that you trek through every nook and cranny to find extra items and possibly uncover a side story of sorts. what is usually referred to as the notion of linearity in video games is the inability to have any freedom to explore. as an example, you cant really explore in platform games usually, IE sonic, old mario games, crash bandicoot, uncharted, etc. nor in most generic FPS games either IE call of duty. another note there are DnD type games in video games, one recent example is Dragon Age, you cant say that there are no "non-linear" rpgs because the game developer is technically the "dungeon master", its like playing with a dungeon master that already has the entire game made up in his mind, all the areas and key events, and there is random chance in most rpgs, instead of rolling dice manually, you use a random number generator, most "RPG" games are in a sense, DnD, just how close it is to the "oldschool" DnD with paper and dice, depends on the game >_> by your definition, the only kinds of games that would come even close to a "non-linear" game are open sandbox games like Elder Scrolls and the like, but even those would be considered linear to your standards because things are already decided for you, the game has a definite end and you are limited as to what you can do in the world. linearity has different standards when it comes to video games depending on the kind of game it is. i could go on, but i would be wasting my time, its only going to get worse. must you try to discredit my opinions at every turn and try to provoke me? seems like you are a pretty unfriendly lot when it comes to others stating their thoughts. sigh... i think ill go ignore the forum for a while, i thought i could pop in every once in a while and throw in my two cents and join in the fun, instead i get in a petty squabble.

Trolling? I know a biased opinion when I see it. If that wasn't biased, like you have been about the DS as well, then I don't know what is. I was able to reveal the exaggerated prices you were quoting, $10 cheaper then has been specified on the net, and I was also able to reveal how Live for the 360 has not been pulled, and that Live on the original Xbox is a global thing. Not some Japanese-only thing. If that wasn't just me providing counter-argument, I don't know what is.

There is a reason there are two different definitions for "RPG", and it is clearly specified that the definition for a table top and console RPG are very different. The story in a table top RPG can be shaped via every member of the game, due to the fact that the game master is a living, breathing human being who is present for the entire game, not only just pre-game. What happens there can be shaped by what I say, I don't have to save the princess, my friend can instead while I slay the dragon. Capice? Where in a console RPG, I have to save that princess and someone else will have to beat that dragon for me. I have no choice in the matter.

Elder Scrolls, like Fable, have a different system though. By my choice, I can choose to do evil things or good things, or both, which will determine the end game. It isn't based on something as shallow as a digit next to my character's name.

To others stating their opinion? Unfriendly? Hah. If you're going to waltz into a forum and be ready to start tossing opinions and trying to pass off individual facts as the one whole truth of the matter, you're going to run into people with opposing opinions and the other set of facts that you leave out due to irrational thinking. Just because my opinion differs doesn't mean it's wrong, or that you are wrong either. I can, however, challenge your opinion. This is a controversial topic about a game that hasn't even reached our shores.

Also, what's this 'lot' business? I wasn't aware that the forums shared one personality as a collective.

[quote=Llian]Anyway, ON TOPIC. I saw IGN's review yesterday; they gave it a 8.5 I think. Fans are just irritated with lol linearity.[quote]

We have been. Read said argument, rather just skimming it. The last 3-4 posts have clearly been about FFXIII.

Yes because talking about FXIII after your brawl with Xbox live and it's popularity in japan is relevant to FFXIII right? If you didn't quite understand, I was talking about that. Notice my subtle sarcasm. If you both agreed that a topic should be made..so go make one . Or if it bothers you that much take it up in pm.

Now IGN said it's not all that bad, despite the linearity. Which means it should still be a very good game. Square Enix is used to producing and coming out with certian types of game such as these. Notice TWEWY was linear as well; but it was still a fun game to play <3.
http://ps3.ign.com/dor/objects/82684...dr_030810.html

[Kibs]

PS3 version is superior, Xbox version is inferior.

End of story.

Discuss the actual f-ing game, now.

[Oni]

Originally Posted by Kibs PS3 version is superior, Xbox version is inferior. End of story. Discuss the actual f-ing game, now.

There's not much else to discuss, other than the design and the possible reasons for it. None of us have played the game Kibs, it's kinda hard to discuss the story and characters if we've never experieced them.

Right?

[Kibs]

Then don't discuss it, it's out now, it was out when my post was posted, if you haven't played it yet why are you judging it?

[Oni]

Because where I live it was only just released today, at $120.

Besides, pfft...lol. "Then why are you judging it?" I'm sorry, but I found that line hilarious. By that line of logic, this thread should have been closed long ago, then re-opened when the game was released.

Besides, one doesn't need to play the game themselves you know about design flaws. There are videos for that. Pfft...lol.

[Kibs]

Originally Posted by Oni Because where I live it was only just released today, at $120. Besides, pfft...lol. "Then why are you judging it?" I'm sorry, but I found that line hilarious. By that line of logic, this thread should have been closed long ago, then re-opened when the game was released. Besides, one doesn't need to play the game themselves you know about design flaws. There are videos for that. Pfft...lol.

Lern 2 Amurika.

Point being I'm trying to stop the ridiculously long argument posts, and you're not helping, behave yourselves. End of discussion.

I have the game, I just happened to open it. Playing it on the other hand might mean free time, which I lack. We'll see though, I'll try and play some before the Ali Hillis interview tomorrow so I'm not so in the dark.

So... since i discovered that winning the swag meant i couldnt win a FF13 I used Plan B, when that didn't work I resorted to Plan C.

Eventually I finally hit Plan Q after everyone of them failed, so I traded in Halo 3 ODST and paid the rest off. So I got it for PS3, and registered for the Beta on #14.

Now its a matter of waiting for the TV to be free -_-

[zaburai]

Well have played it for 25 hours thus far and I have to say, it seems a lot shorter than the predeccessors, I am nearly completed chapter 10 out of 13....convenient number, I know that side quests will bump it up but still VII - IX took at least 60 hours to complete, I think X was around the same.

Here are my 2 pennies thus far:

The graphics are the best I have seen for any multiplatform game, it rivals Uncharted 2 and MGS4 and Batman: Arkham Asylum.

The story is pretty damn good, not as good compared to others in the franchise but better than what has come out of SE since FFIX.

The battle system is brilliant, it is like Persona 3's battle system if they actually did it right.

People have complained about the linearity of the game, I dont care, no JRPG is fully free roaming, 90% of all JRPGS aren't....screw that 99% are linear.

If you like your bishies you will love Snow and Cid Raines.

Now for the bad parts, yes I am afraid that there are some problems:

The characters for the most part are not really that great or memorable, except for 2 people Snow and Sazh, Snow because he is an optimist who will help anyone in need and he is a tank. Sazh because at the start you don't know all that much about him and it slowly opens up revealing a really deep character that is easily relatable with, though why do they always give the black guy guns?
I dont really have anything to say about the other characters because they are clichéd.

As I have said before it is shorter than other FF games.

The walkthrough is usless against bosses.

The plot though good can be predictable at times.

Hope is an angsty teen and I am really hating them at the minute and he is the strongest mage in the game, which I am annoyed about while they make Sazh near useless, why not balance out the characters SE?

The difficulty difference between bosses and normal enimies is quiet big which is annoying, yes the bosses can be really hard at times as early as 2 hours into the game

The soundtrack is okay nothing really memorable

I have said this in the IRC a couple of times, but why is Leona Lewis singing in this game.....she isn't good and the song that was chosen sucks. I know this is to make...it...appeal..to..a..wider..audience...JRPGs are a niche genre that no-one other than nerds (afraid to say it is true most RPG players are nerds or are really into anime...in which case they are probably a nerd) touch, so that attempt is wasted, just keep the Japanese song in it, mabye translate it but use the same goddamn singer, it worked really well in IX, I actually prefer the English version of Melodies of Life to the Japanese and it was done by the same singer. I should have guessed this would happen when the Gods themselves left SE.

The summons are not that great they are good in Gestalt mode but thats it.

Well that is my opinion of the game, hope I didn't bore you with this wall of text lol.

PS There is practically no androgynous characters, Hope is slightly questionable in this aspect but other than that YAY YATTA YATTA YATTA...sorry about that, though I will admit that I do disagree with Sage's review quite a bit for this game.

[Rhetorical Gamer]

Ok I know this post is old. But I played the first six FF games and
I would like to play FF 13 on 360. Could someone lay out the pros and cons
(good and bad) of FF 13 to see if I should buy it.

I got as far as the third disc on it. Basically where it barely introduces you to the open world map, but due to being stuck on the final boss on the second disc, I never touched the box ever again.

I also got tired of pressing "A" every few minutes.

>>
<<

Is it sad to say I still haven't played past Snow's first part?

[Rhetorical Gamer]

So avoid it? Sound like it a button masher and no map and difficult bosses.