[GCN] Super Smash Bros Melee

[G U R U]

In my opinion this game is the best game of the last decade. Pretty bold statement I know but if you research how complex this game is underneath its party game exterior you'll see that it is of the most technical, flawless, and fun games of all time. I've been playing it for over 5 years now and I honestly can't see myself ever quitting for good. I stopped playing for almost a year when Brawl came out and I really regret it. Brawl is such a bad game in comparison.

Anyway, discuss this masterpiece of gaming and please no Brawl talk in here as this is the past gen section.

Oh ya and my main is Fox but I can play almost everyone well. Some of my high secondaries are Marth, Sheik, Peach, Cpt Falcon and Ganondorf.

[Oni]

Complex? You mean how it can be exploited via the Wave Dashing Technique, making people think they're pro?

The lack of the WDT doesn't make Brawl a bad game, and I much prefer it.

64 > Brawl > Melee.

[G U R U]

... I have a feeling this is gonna take a turn for the worst.

It's not just Wavedashing that makes Melee better. It's L-cancelling, the physics in general, the stages, and how there are legit combos. Only things better about brawl are the graphics and character roster.

I'm surprised you like 64 the best though. Personally I like Melee the most and then 64 and Brawl in second.

[Oni]

Well, it's generally going to turn out that way when you off handedly bash something in the OP.

Melee has a bad camera, Brawl has L-cancelling, Brawl has most Melee stages, 'legit combos' are only pertained by the character user. I don't think "physics" is a legit claim, considering most aspects are identical in all 3 games.

[Bonediddly]

I like Melee better. Why? I hate smashes.

[Oni]

-> Items -> Smash Balls: Off.

[Chris]

Originally Posted by G U R U In my opinion

This is what everyone's going to keep in mind when posting here.

As for the good spirited debate, They are generally rated pretty close by most big name review companies and I can't say I disagree with them. As I have played both, I like and dislike different things about each game. In Brawl specifically, I didn't enjoy the long story mode, it was alright at first and got boring. I did although enjoy the character selection and the new trophy's. The smash's were a neat idea but not necessarily right for every match, and of course you could turn them off as Oni pointed out. I found that 64 and melee are just more easy to pick up and play where as Brawl feels like you need to dedicate a good amount of time to really get the full enjoyment out of the game, which isn't a bad thing, just depends on how much time you have to spend.

And that's how I felt about the games.

[G U R U]

Originally Posted by Oni Well, it's generally going to turn out that way when you off handedly bash something in the OP. Melee has a bad camera, Brawl has L-cancelling, Brawl has most Melee stages, 'legit combos' are only pertained by the character user. I don't think "physics" is a legit claim, considering most aspects are identical in all 3 games.

Please explain how Melee has a bad camera. Brawl does not have L-cancelling. Yes you can cancel certain moves if you perform them right but it's not even close to the same thing. All of Brawl's new stages suck except for Smashville and they also changed some old ones that made them worse (FD, PS) as well as not putting in Dreamland AT ALL. The physics in Melee are like Earth's gravity, and Brawl's is like the moons. 5x more floatier, therefore slower, which is not a good thing btw.

I like Brawl better because Falco gets to be different from his Fox counterpart, that and it includes Wario and Sonic, and Mr Game n Watch is a beast!

[Oni]

Originally Posted by G U R U Please explain how Melee has a bad camera. Brawl does not have L-cancelling. Yes you can cancel certain moves if you perform them right but it's not even close to the same thing. All of Brawl's new stages suck except for Smashville and they also changed some old ones that made them worse (FD, PS) as well as not putting in Dreamland AT ALL. The physics in Melee are like Earth's gravity, and Brawl's is like the moons. 5x more floatier, therefore slower, which is not a good thing btw.

Melee tends to like to constantly zoom in and out, rather than keeping at a certain distance, depending on how far away the characters are. Yeah, and that's generally how cancelling works.

"All of Brawls new stages suck"...well, I can't argue that point at all because it's entirely subjective. I happened to like the Melee levels included.

I can't believe you complained about things being floaty in a game that has Mewtwo.

Also, I prefer 64 out of all 3 for obvious reasons. Anyone can pick up and play it, douchbags aren't going to claim they are 1337 by exploiting holes in the gameplay and no one is going to complain about levels. Plus the controls are the best, as C-sticking isn't as easy to do due to the N64 controller.

[Kibs]

My brother and I were big into 64 and Melee, by the time brawl came around he'd sort of "grown out of" video games, and I mostly just played on my own. Nostalgia dictates that I had the most fun with 64, since my brother and I were fairly well matched, though it would almost always come down to who could rollgrab faster than the other person.

Melee introduced a few new things that changed the game a lot, it also introduced me to Shiek, Marth, and young Link, memory tells me I was good with them, but that's merely subjective.

I'm going to say Brawl isn't as good a game as the other two merely because it seemed like they were trying to do too much with the game, and while you can turn off smashes, they're a fun part of the game, however I felt like they didn't spend any time balancing them, as some were incredibly easy to KO with (Link, Sonic) while some others are incredibly hard to even hit your opponents with (Meta, Snake). The story mode was fun, but got very old by the end.

In my opinion Melee is the best, as 64 feels like it's missing a bit, and Brawl feels like it's doing too much. In melee and in brawl they did new things with the physics, and they way the characters feel, and I have to agree with guru on this one. Yes mewtwo is incredibly floaty in melee, however every other character is incredibly floaty in Brawl. I like the way you tried to argue that point Oni, sounding like you had a quick witted argument against the floaty thing, but once you get past the "you're wrong" attitude it's pretty easy to tell what you were doing there.


On the arugment about all of these game exploits, I will point out what I always point out about every fighting game enthusiast I've met:
Honestly if you're going to devote enough time to count invincible frames, and practice move canceling and whatnot to pull off perfect combos you're a little *too* into the game and need to go out to that strange bright place known as "outside".

Anyway let's wrap this up before this degrades into nothing more than a flamewar. Everyone likes a specific game for their own reasons, and telling someone they're wrong for having an opinion is pig-headed and egotistical. So how about instead of telling everyone else why their favorite game isn't the best, we just say why we like the games we do without the petty need to be right all of the time.

Mmkay?

[mitamaking]

I honestly can't stand the tournament scene do to this game,No Items, Final Destination
So dull, I love Brawl because it to a point tried to kill the tournament scene.
I miss Roy and Mewtwo though.

[Kibs]

Originally Posted by mitamaking I honestly can't stand the tournament scene do to this game,No Items, Final Destination So dull, I love Brawl because it to a point tried to kill the tournament scene. I miss Roy and Mewtwo though.

true that, Ike is pretty cheap, at least you could counter Roy's annoying tendencies.

My brother and I used to play tourney style, but that was because 90% of the time, whoever lost ended up saying it was cheap (due to items). But yeah, the game is meant for party style thing, and brawl did kill that.

[Oni]

Originally Posted by Kibs But yeah, the game is meant for party style thing, and brawl did kill that.

How? It's still a party brawler that any one can pick up and play. I don't see how that's valid.

When I had brawl I enjoyed it but it quickly got boring. I dunno if it's just me. I never played Melee.

[Oni]

Originally Posted by Llian When I had brawl I enjoyed it but it quickly got boring. I dunno if it's just me. I never played Melee.

Don't worry, all three are like that. They're all brawlers with little depth to them. I'll only really pick up Brawl or 64 if a friend comes over.

[Kibs]

Originally Posted by Oni How? It's still a party brawler that any one can pick up and play. I don't see how that's valid.

Context.

If you'd like me to make a bit more of a solid point I could explain that since we're all talking from personal opinion, brawl killed the party game aspect for me. If you'd like an example of that watch yahtzee's review of the game, where he basically stated that to unlock all of the characters and courses to make the game really party ready, as in not be limited to half of the characters and stages, you'd have to play through the 10-hour single player mode, making you "that guy" at the party. So the only way to truly enjoy the game at a party would be to play on the console somebody owned, but not allow them to join in.

But I digress, this is just my opinion.

[Oni]

Originally Posted by Kibs Context. If you'd like me to make a bit more of a solid point I could explain that since we're all talking from personal opinion, brawl killed the party game aspect for me. If you'd like an example of that watch yahtzee's review of the game, where he basically stated that to unlock all of the characters and courses to make the game really party ready, as in not be limited to half of the characters and stages, you'd have to play through the 10-hour single player mode, making you "that guy" at the party. So the only way to truly enjoy the game at a party would be to play on the console somebody owned, but not allow them to join in. But I digress, this is just my opinion.

All the characters in Brawl can be unlocked outside of story mode through party-based brawling.

Yes, but this is true of Melee as well, isn't it? After all, Brawl only had 2 more unlockable characters than Melee (Melee = 12, Brawl = 14).

[G U R U]

Originally Posted by Oni Don't worry, all three are like that. They're all brawlers with little depth to them. I'll only really pick up Brawl or 64 if a friend comes over.

Are you serious?! Melee is one of the most deep games of all time. You could play it for 10 years and not know everything about it.

I'd like to see your example of a deep game. You'll probably say some over cliched answer like Half-Life 2.

[Oni]

Originally Posted by G U R U Are you serious?! Melee is one of the most deep games of all time. You could play it for 10 years and not know everything about it. I'd like to see your example of a deep game. You'll probably say some over cliched answer like Half-Life 2.

The gameplay in all 3 Smash games is pretty shallow. No one can really deny that.

My example of a deep game? The Disgaea series.